According to Darwin, life and changes are ruled by chance. SAM KEAN: They wanted to see basically the effects of starvation on multiple generations. Everybody we talked to seems to think there's something really interesting going on here. Can you say oh my goodness? OLOV BYGREN: It was very interesting discovery. JAD: Turning down a job that they'd offered him. I had everybody's abuse on my back and I didn't care how we said it, or how we did it. Yes. And then that baby would stretch and stretch, and it would give a little more stretching to its baby. ROBERT: But, this hour were gonna fight this sort of sad sack feeling of inevitability and impotence. He'd fall asleep and just wake up screaming. PAT: Watching this, I couldn't help but think that Destiny's very existence is probably the most interesting argument against what Barbara is doing. Its something I still think about all the time. His example with humans was a blacksmith. All the babies I had seen and all the people that have called me to tell me about their babies that were damaged. Frankly, this makes being 9, 10, 11, 12 like a rather crucial. SAM KEAN: Except he had one. What they decided to do first was to try to figure out which rat was which, which meant, interestingly, counting all the legs. I asked Barbara about some of the things that she'd said because, to be totally honest, they kind of turn my stomach. TRANSCRIPTS. One-fourth? Push yourself and you got it.". SAM KEAN: This is what's called the slow growth period. The bit of DNA that will give this baby when it grows up the instincts to be nice to its baby, and lick that baby. CARL ZIMMER: And in1923, he actually comes to England. And I was a waitress, I worked for IHOP for over 30 years. And rewrite the so-called rules of genetics. To learn more about higher level giving opportunities please contact the Development Office at giving@nypublicradio.org or (646) 829-4130. They didn't have grains. He was mighty skeptical. Is that too old?" It's only the mechanisms are not so clear. ROBERT: That's interesting. Its just That's just how I've always looked at it. Nobody has a right to do that to a baby. BARBARA HARRIS: Yeah, the social worker called and told me the mother had given birth. CHARLOTTE ZIMMER: Radiolab is supported in part by the National Science Foundation and CHARLOTTE and VERONICA ZIMMER: The Alfred P. Sloan Foundation. And to believe anything else, that's naive. I just saw them as child abusers. And I didn't find a single case of someone saying that they regretted what they've done. JAD: Thanks to Olov Bygren, reporter Pejk Malinovski and KARIN BORGKVIST LJUNG: Karin Borgkvist Ljung, and I'm a senior archivist at the National Archive in Marieberg in Stockholm. Like, "How did this happen? JAD: Yeah, like you can help them overcome you. Nobody's arguing that women should do drugs when they're pregnant. JAD: You can imagine these toads are like, "Dammit, fine. JAD: To fellow named Jean-Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, chevalier de Lamarck. JAD: You got your good parents and your bad parents. Since birth. LYNN PALTROW: Well, her explanation is that these women are having, in her terms, litters of damaged babies and society forever will be responsible for them. Actually, the idea itself is pretty old. She started to wish again that she could have a daughter. JAD: Actually, the idea itself is pretty old. And he was going through withdrawal. That, in a sort of ass backward way was Michael's question. In this episode, originally aired in 2012, we put nature and nurture on a collision course and discover how outside forces can find a way inside us, and change not just our hearts and minds, but the basic biological blueprint that we pass on to future generations. LYNN PALTROW: Tell me what your image of a drug-using pregnant woman is. OLOV BYGREN: Something happens on the molecular level. Wow. PAT: For me, this whole story really shifted PAT: When I started spending some time with Destiny, Barbara's 22-year-old daughter. It's such a surprising result. CARL ZIMMER: It all came down to this jar with his toad in it. So that's fun. But what exactly. JAD: I mean, it's pretty common but like, here's a for instance, my dad from my entire life had this thing where if someone was whistling, he would like they could be whistling six tables over in a restaurant and he would turn around and be like, "Stop that," it was like it was scraping his very nerves. Females seem to hate laying eggs in the water, but is that the end of the story? OLOV BYGREN: Yes, we are really data-rich. JAD: But wouldnt it be nice if thats how it worked? You know, just take a little peek for themselves, and every time Kammerer said no, they were his specimens. like they could be whistling six tables over in a restaurant and he would turn around and be like, "Stop that," it was like it was scraping his very nerves. Suddenly you're marked. SAM KEAN: You feel kind of hemmed in by what your grandfather did? She said, "Thank you so much for the gift, I bought my son an excavator truck, remote control and some summer outfits." If they see methyl groups sitting on that bit of DNA, they are pissed. It's such a surprising result. Yes, no, okay, move on to the next cage, yes, no? SAM KEAN: What's happening during this time is that you're setting aside the stock of cells that you're going to draw on in the future to make sperm cells. CARL ZIMMER: He was revealing it with experiments. ROBERT: Meaning that they had less incidence of heart disease? But wouldnt it be nice if thats how it worked? I just didnt think. And when methyl groups stick to that part of the DNA, the maternal instinct is effectively turned off. Oh you said it so much more diplomatically. But it failed. ROBERT: And there were from the beginning. I find myself thinking like, Okay, I know these kids have their genes half from me, half from my wife. JAD: So this whole debate, two totally different ways of seeing life. JAD: How do those cycles perpetuate? She asked my opinion and that's what I'm giving. And she told Barbara, "There's something you need to know about this baby.". ROBERT: What do you mean? But, I said this to Lynn, "Despite all the things that trouble me about Barbara's program, I feel like what she's trying to do is to stop a kid from getting born into a childhood that's going to suck.". Please welcome Barbara.]. When Kammerer published his results initially, a bunch of scientists immediately began to say CARL ZIMMER: "Wait a minute, hold on here, it would be nice if life was like that but life isn't like that. ROBERT: They won't grow much on the outside, but on the inside OLOV BYGREN: That is the time where the sperms are developing. JAD: Just to be sure, we asked Frances Champagne what she thinks of this data. They have six, seven, eight, ten, fourteen.]. It's just a mind crushing tedium. We ended up talking to the guy who did the work. No, she was an oops kid. And The other day someone was whistling and I was like, "Stop it", and it just hit me, I was like, "Oh God, I was him", it's never appeared until now. If you start smoking when you're 10, 11 something like that, you end up having children with more problems. OLOV BYGREN: It's a small forest area, very beautiful. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Who, together, pledged more than $150,000 to her program.]. They all go down to the DNA, surround that methyl and just, pow! [laughs] We now know that thats not the case. Thats just the cold logic of Darwinian evolution. JAD: Or did I somehow learn that? Heart disease. ROBERT: I wonder. Lots of money. And there were from the beginning. I dont know. PAT: Destiny says one day, she and her mom were in the car, and her mom said DESTINY HARRIS: She said, "I don't know, you know, maybe they'll grow bigger? His example with humans was a blacksmith. JAD: He works at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden where he studies population data. He actually coined the word biology, too. Destiny has, what, three brothers and sisters that also were raised with her? These people are paying millions of dollars to take care of your children!]. This assignment is from the free science education website Science Prof Online(ScienceProfOnline.com). You know what they're going to go do with that money. PAT: So by now it's 1994, and Barbara is thinking PAT: You know? We'll just get one more.". ROBERT: And it just so happens this town is a perfect place to dig. I mean, they didn't have porridge. PAT: And by this point, she's 37 years old. It's a small forest area, very beautiful. Whole lifetime of stretching. ROBERT: Remind me this. BARBARA HARRIS: That's how we ended up with four of them. Maybe they'd try and jump back out, but it was still hot so they'd have to jump back in. And that could have very easily have been one of us. ", In other words, "Could I pay women who have drug problems to stop having babies?". In those books you can read everything about the citizens of verkalix, going back hundreds of years. I make a difference to her. BARBARA HARRIS: They were seven and eight at the time. The event that really sets this story in motion, the set of events, happened a few months after Barbara had brought Destiny home. Full disclosure, she's Robert's sister's partner. DESTINY HARRIS: Taylor Swift's Never Getting Back Together. It would be wrong to think that they represent all women who use drugs while they're pregnant. Inheritance | Radiolab Podcast 4,710 views Apr 8, 2022 Radiolab 43.8K subscribers From the Radiolab podcast: How your grandfather's diet can affect your lifespan, heart health and even. He thought that because theyre swinging hammers all day, they got big bulky muscles, and then theyd pass the muscles to their children. But that you supposedly can't get to. I wouldn't want to put it up to chance, because what kind of life is that? It's only the mechanisms are not so clear. What's he talking about? And she's a complete nut. IMDb is the world's most popular and authoritative source for movie, TV and celebrity content. Around 1908, he started publishing all of these results. Started with the tongue. Nice, cool water. As a parent, you are a tiny blip in a very, very, long story. As a parent, you are a tiny blip in a very, very, long story. ROBERT: That's Sam Kean again. Maybe like those methyl things we were telling you about with the rats. [ARCHIVAL CLIP, Jad Abumrad: Whats this letter right here? [expletive] That was awesome. SAM KEAN: I should add too. [ARCHIVAL Clip, News: Barbara Harris's solution is simpler than anything else out there. LULU: In a very real way, weve been thinking a lot about inheritance. Like Id be like, Weve got the keys, were gonna trash the house., Anyway, we think about that all the time and I was just talking to Lulu about that and she was just like, You know, theres a radiolab about this.. SAM KEAN: It was this struggle for a few years. BARBARA HARRIS: "I want to thank you for your support and kindness as always." They would experience these wild changes from harvest to harvest. He is passionate about scholarly writing, World History, and Political sciences. Not been born at all. DESTINY HARRIS: That's my little girl. She's 22 now and she's never even met her birth mom. Assuming that you can survive the ordeal, and you grow up, and you have kids of your own, the data seems to say that your kids will benefit from your suffering. SAM KEAN: It seemed to have been passed down for multiple generations. PAT: The moment I really felt like, "Whoa," was when we started talking about PAT: The little baby that we keep hearing in the background of everything. SAM KEAN: And these effects, in fact, were so strong that you could trace it to the grandfather. Thank you so much for your interest in Radiolab. We inherited this beloved show that we first fell in love with as listeners. And at first, it didn't go so well because, you know, if you're a land toad and you're trying to have sex in the water, it's kind of hard. ], What's the worst thing you have been called by one of your critics?]. PAT: She did. ], [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: Like you said, when you were in your addiction like she is], [ARCHIVAL CLIP, BARBARA HARRIS: I didn't say I'm God. To fellow named Jean-Baptiste Pierre Antoine de Monet, chevalier de Lamarck. We went to the foster home and went in. I'm in public health. ROBERT: If you were a great rat mommy, what would you be doing with your rat baby? And at a certain point, I noticed over my shoulder Barbara's crouched down and she's got her phone out and she's taking a picture of this just perfect little scene. To her, I matter. MICHAEL MEANEY: I was an undergraduate student. Basically, the midwife toad has a strange habit for toads. PAT'S DAD: Calling in to help read the credits. CARL ZIMMER: Just until they hatch and then 'til they go off. My name is Veronica Zimmer. When Kammerer published his results initially, a bunch of scientists immediately began to say "Wait a minute, hold on here, it would be nice if life was like that but life isn't like that. Let me say this again. Olov told us, take heart disease. Were there any consequences? JAD: But were gonna play you stories where JAD: This is Radiolab. ], This could mean sterilization, it could mean getting an IUD.]. That's what I remember her saying. JAD: It's off-limits. And it just so happens this town is a perfect place to dig. They suddenly had to get by on a tiny fraction of the food that they were used to. I think what's weird here is that is that we started trying to make a difference in our children and now we're surprise attacked by our grandparents. So by now it 's only the mechanisms are not so clear # x27 ; s popular. I pay women who have drug problems to stop having babies? `` I was a,... Seven, eight, ten, radiolab inheritance transcript. ] of DNA, surround that methyl just... To dig now and she told barbara, `` there 's something really interesting on! Really data-rich stories where jad: so this whole debate, two totally different ways of seeing life even. Very beautiful to put it up to chance, because what kind of hemmed by... 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